<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 13:00, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee <<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>My point is that NamedWildcards is a souped up version of PartialTypeSignatures<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>f :: _ -> _<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>g :: _a -> _a<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The former is a partial type signature. So is the latter! The former is equivalent to f :: _a -> _b.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Now, I’ve just discovered that
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>Wildcards in types work *<b>regardless</b>* of flag. Thus you can use the above signature for f with no flag at all, and get a message like
this:<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494Code" style="margin-left:72pt"><span>Foo.hs:5:6: error:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494Code" style="margin-left:72pt"><span> • Found type wildcard ‘_’ standing for ‘[a]’<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494Code" style="margin-left:72pt"><span> Where: ‘a’ is a rigid type variable bound by<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494Code" style="margin-left:72pt"><span> the inferred type of f :: [a] -> [a]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494Code" style="margin-left:72pt"><span> at Foo.hs:6:1-12<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494Code" style="margin-left:72pt"><span> To use the inferred type, enable PartialTypeSignatures<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494MsoListParagraph"><i><span>So the only effect of PartialTypeSignatures is to turn that error into a warning.</span></i><span> I had not appreciated that.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494MsoListParagraph"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>As you say,
</span><span>NamedWildCards treats _a as a wildcard rather than a variable. Fine.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>Given the above, I still think it’s bizarre not to allow PartialTypeSignatures. All the complexity is there already; it’s only a question
of turning the error into a warning</span></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It would be slightly strange to have a language feature that is enabled by default but generates a warning every time you use it. I'd rather the warning was disabled by default, but I agree that PartialTypeSignatures should be on.</div><div><br></div><div>If I recall correctly, it was Richard who argued for NamedWildCards without PartialTypeSignatures (or independently of it), somewhere deep in one of these email threads :)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>Simon</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-GB"><div class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494WordSection1"><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc"><li class="gmail-m_-2081504188946697494MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span><u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Simon<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Alejandro Serrano Mena <<a href="mailto:trupill@gmail.com" target="_blank">trupill@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 December 2020 12:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joachim Breitner <<a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" target="_blank">mail@joachim-breitner.de</a>>; <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Forth status update / <a href="http://kialo.com" target="_blank">kialo.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 15 Dec 2020 at 13:18:20, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee <<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Writing down the summary here<br>
<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1BMJtUQGk1HKOFgLnczybAwd1HgqbNpZA7elM4VnANa8%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977856035%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nwXI1KIFwaFAf8WrdnXBF7MoNIhq2tTt0KIL0LVBCx8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BMJtUQGk1HKOFgLnczybAwd1HgqbNpZA7elM4VnANa8/edit?usp=sharing</a><br>
<br>
allows me to ask:<br>
<br>
* It can't be sensible to propose NamedWildCards (8 votes) without ParitalTypeSignatures (2 votes), can it?<u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As far as I understand it, they have different purposes:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- NamedWildCards instructs GHC to treat names starting with underscore as unknown variables when unifying. So for example, the following would not work, since _a would need to be Char and Bool at the same time.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">> f :: _a -> _a<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">> f ‘x’ = True<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you do not enable NamedWildCards, names starting with an underscore are taken to be regular variables. So the type ‘_a -> _a’ is completely equivalent to ‘a -> a’.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- PartialTypeSignatures is about *accepting* those signatures by the compiler. If you don’t have this on, a partial type signature gives you an error with the inferred type, but does not continue compiling your program.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Personally, I think this is the right behaviour: do not accept partial signatures unless explicitly told so.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Simon<br>
<br>
| -----Original Message-----<br>
| From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-<br>
| <a href="mailto:bounces@haskell.org" target="_blank">bounces@haskell.org</a>> On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner<br>
| Sent: 14 December 2020 22:23<br>
| To: <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
| Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] #380 GHC2021: Forth status update /<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkialo.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977866031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=EHZIchQsOdwrT6p5MuQUoWONZvUr8x35ACzUXFZk1HA%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">kialo.com</a><br>
| <br>
| Dear Committe,<br>
| <br>
| three weeks in, we have all votes. So now things are looking more<br>
| concrete.<br>
| <br>
| As always, the table<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith" target="_blank">https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith</a><br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fub.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977866031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zmCppIBCXjqoVaZaXY1FWcKBcBBP8Pwni1jn7hkpBcU%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">ub.com</a>%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-<br>
| proposals%2Fblob%2Fghc2021%2Fproposals%2F0000-<br>
| ghc2021.rst%23data&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977876027%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=yWWXXXYhlgsc6DkoQ2pl%2Fg3W3FKR6wrlSN70mYDCoWE%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7C10d0e7<br>
| 09a1dd4525973708d8a07ecdad%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%<br>
| 7C637435813779684920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI<br>
| joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3i5Pfxw2%2B<br>
| XKtfsbkhbwjreFArYCfvMDGyw%2F0ctxJfKs%3D&reserved=0<br>
| has the current data.<br>
| <br>
| Would it be helpful to add columns to that table for each committee<br>
| member? So that you can quickly see who voted what?<br>
| <br>
| The following in are safely in (= need more than one vote to change to<br>
| get out):<br>
| <br>
| BangPatterns, BinaryLiterals, ConstrainedClassMethods,<br>
| ConstraintKinds, DeriveDataTypeable, DeriveFoldable, DeriveFunctor,<br>
| DeriveGeneric, DeriveLift, DeriveTraversable, EmptyCase,<br>
| EmptyDataDecls, EmptyDataDeriving, ExplicitForAll, FlexibleContexts,<br>
| FlexibleInstances, GADTSyntax, GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving,<br>
| HexFloatLiterals, ImportQualifiedPost, InstanceSigs, KindSignatures,<br>
| MultiParamTypeClasses, NamedFieldPuns, NumericUnderscores, PolyKinds,<br>
| PostfixOperators, RankNTypes, StandaloneDeriving, StarIsType,<br>
| TypeApplications, TypeSynonymInstances<br>
| <br>
| The following are barely in (exactly 8 votes in favor, and 3 against):<br>
| <br>
| ExistentialQuantification, NamedWildCards, StandaloneKindSignatures,<br>
| TypeOperators<br>
| <br>
| The following are short one vote (7 in favor, 4 against):<br>
| <br>
| DerivingStrategies, ForeignFunctionInterface, GADTs, MonoLocalBinds,<br>
| NegativeLiterals, RecordWildCards, ScopedTypeVariables, TupleSections,<br>
| TypeFamilies<br>
| <br>
| <br>
| I am sure we can have plenty of discussion for each of these. Probably<br>
| without end. As Simon says, mailing lists don't scale. So I think we<br>
| have two choices:<br>
| <br>
| 1. Let the numbers decide, and accept whatever comes out. According to<br>
| the process (which we should only follow if we find it helpful) we'd<br>
| maybe update our votes, and maybe point out new facets, for one week,<br>
| and then just take whatever has 8 votes.<br>
| <br>
| or<br>
| <br>
| 2. Explore a more efficient discussion format.<br>
| <br>
| For the latter I mentioned <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkialo.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977886022%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qq0Ly%2Bi0BEtojVpMvmN9GqDs0ftVQp9%2B5DA0RQel7JI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
kialo.com</a> before, and maybe it is worth a<br>
| try, so I set up a discussion there:<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww" target="_blank">https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww</a>.<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkialo.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977886022%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qq0Ly%2Bi0BEtojVpMvmN9GqDs0ftVQp9%2B5DA0RQel7JI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">kialo.com</a>%2Fwhich-haskell-extensions-should-go-into-ghc2021-<br>
| 43548%3Fpath%3D43548.0&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977896016%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gNhldU3ky0zZjdTamtkGkcXkYnij%2FnZfXZP%2FVA7pBh4%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7C10<br>
| d0e709a1dd4525973708d8a07ecdad%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%<br>
| 7C0%7C637435813779684920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL<br>
| CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=I8nLXqK<br>
| Mf32ctvlrPcPS%2BKBD%2FSw5vrV%2B0Fv%2BYvP%2Bbho%3D&reserved=0<br>
| <br>
| So what do you see there?<br>
| <br>
| There is a discussion tree:<br>
| <br>
| The root is "what goes in GHC2021"<br>
| <br>
| The next layer are all extensions with 7 or 8 votes.<br>
| (I assume we should focus on those initially, but feel free to add<br>
| more or ask me to.) For example: TupleSections<br>
| <br>
| And then each of these has a column where we can collect Pros and<br>
| cons.<br>
| For example:<br>
| Pro: Opt-in Syntax<br>
| Con: Possible clash with extra-comma syntax extensions.<br>
| <br>
| So you can treat it like a wiki, but with structure to organize the<br>
| discussion.<br>
| <br>
| In fact, each pro and con is itself a node where you can add<br>
| supporting and disagreeing comments. This means that if you _disagree_<br>
| that TupleSections are actually Opt-in syntax, there is a dedicated<br>
| place to raise that point, rather than putting "Not actually opt-in"<br>
| in the Con column of TupleSections...<br>
| <br>
| A good way to navigate the discussion seems to be the radial icon in<br>
| the top left; it opens a radial view of the whole discussion, and you<br>
| can read arguments by hovering.<br>
| <br>
| <br>
| The site doesn't offer voting, it is only about structuring the<br>
| discussion, and it is designed for much larger and much more<br>
| contentious debates (e.g. "Brexit"). So we'll see how well it works<br>
| for us and if it's helpful.<br>
| <br>
| Cheers,<br>
| Joachim<br>
| <br>
| <br>
| --<br>
| Joachim Breitner<br>
| <a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" target="_blank">mail@joachim-breitner.de</a><br>
| <br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j" target="_blank">https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.j</a><br>
| oachim-<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbreitner.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977896016%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gDY7g2ZbZUXmBOcZ965QbDXx%2FyqV0QTzLy28JY6PnTI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">breitner.de</a>%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C2aecc7661e8b44021c5508d8a0f7b034%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637436332977906015%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=um%2Ba0XdBybuyBixCbfruJUGQRyHy%2BBaXDGbgFWIAu2k%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7C10d0e709a1<br>
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| 7435813779684920%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV<br>
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| DcVqSS7BQroJAg8R3ccoLQ9Hua%2FgwbAE%3D&reserved=0<br>
| <br>
| <br>
| _______________________________________________<br>
| ghc-steering-committee mailing list<br>
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