<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
.MsoPapDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
margin-top:6.0pt;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:6.0pt;
margin-left:0cm;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:2018772951;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-250027824 134807553 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:38.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:74.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:110.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:146.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:182.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:218.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:254.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:290.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:326.25pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Personally I don’t think we should make the Steering Committee responsible for initiating or driving this. We should<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:2.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">establish the criteria (including some idea of how frequently we’d be open to creating a new GHCxx version),
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:2.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">express open-ness to a proposal, and then
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:2.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">review proposals when/if they materialise.
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It’d be fine for Alejandro, as an individual, to be a proposer. But that’s different from making the committee
<i>responsible</i>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What do others think?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Alejandro Serrano Mena <trupill@gmail.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 September 2020 09:13<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj@microsoft.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Eisenberg <rae@richarde.dev>; Eric Seidel <eric@seidel.io>; ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ghc-steering-committee] GHC 2020<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
I would really like to move this forward, and I would be happy to put some work on it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
What do you think of the following plan?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
- Create a ghc-proposal based on the (awesome) wiki page by Richard. I think the criteria in the wiki are quite nice. Explain that one of the goals is to encompass as many stable extensions as possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
- Reformat the list to make 3 tables: one for extensions which satisfy all 5 criteria, one for extensions we want to include even if they don't, and one for those which should be rejected in the light of those criteria.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
If the process works well, we could think about instaurating a yearly/bi-yearly/n-yearly process to create new -XGHC20XX versions.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Alejandro<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
El lun., 7 sept. 2020 a las 17:32, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee (<<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a>>) escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Just back from holiday. Some thoughts<br>
<br>
* I don’t think this mailing list is the best place for the<br>
discussion. Basically, it's a GHC Proposal, so someone (possibly<br>
a committee member, possibly not) should write a proposal,<br>
and we should put it through the process.<br>
<br>
* We should advertise the criteria, as Richard has done on the<br>
wiki page.<br>
<br>
* Any such proposal should be informed by data. Notably, extension usage<br>
in Hackage, or perhaps Stackage (since it's a bit more curated).<br>
<br>
* A proposer might also want to run a public poll, as an additional<br>
source of data<br>
<br>
* When it comes to the committee, we can (I guess) vote on individual<br>
extensions, rather than just accept/reject the whole thing.<br>
<br>
I am intrigued by the idea of using Kialo to coordinate discussion.<br>
Maybe it'd work better than GitHub? Are there other alternatives?<br>
But that's orthogonal to the GHC 2020 idea; let's not conflate them.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
| -----Original Message-----<br>
| From: ghc-steering-committee <ghc-steering-committee-<br>
| <a href="mailto:bounces@haskell.org" target="_blank">bounces@haskell.org</a>> On Behalf Of Richard Eisenberg<br>
| Sent: 02 September 2020 14:57<br>
| To: Eric Seidel <<a href="mailto:eric@seidel.io" target="_blank">eric@seidel.io</a>><br>
| Cc: <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
| Subject: Re: [ghc-steering-committee] GHC 2020<br>
| <br>
| It seems clear that my wiki idea isn't winning the day -- I never<br>
| really liked it either. I'd be fine with either Eric's or Joachim's<br>
| approaches. Maybe start with Joachim's approach and then use Eric's<br>
| when Joachim's runs out of steam? A big minus, though, to Joachim's<br>
| approach is that it seems hard to get good community involvement.<br>
| <br>
| Richard<br>
| <br>
| > On Sep 2, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Eric Seidel <<a href="mailto:eric@seidel.io" target="_blank">eric@seidel.io</a>> wrote:<br>
| ><br>
| > Opening a regular discussion about whether and how we want to work on<br>
| GHC 2020 sounds fine, that will also give the community a place to<br>
| weigh in. I do think the eventual contents should be informed by the<br>
| community though, it shouldn’t just be us working alone.<br>
| ><br>
| > Sent from my iPhone<br>
| ><br>
| >> On Sep 2, 2020, at 03:16, Joachim Breitner <mail@joachim-<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbreitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986435664&sdata=Vfd5PeSlx%2FqLuT96wFjzBj0%2FVPgXrNqH%2FMgSj8g2QiM%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
breitner.de</a>> wrote:<br>
| >><br>
| >> Hi,<br>
| >><br>
| >> sounds plausible. It would also allow us to use tags to easily<br>
| indicate<br>
| >> the status (e.g. clearly-not, definitely-yes, kinda-contested…), and<br>
| >> then filter by issue to get the current list…<br>
| >><br>
| >> But before we go there, shouldn’t we maybe have a discussion first<br>
| on<br>
| >><br>
| >> * do we even want that?<br>
| >> * what are the abstract criteria (or guidelines)?<br>
| >> * what is the process?<br>
| >><br>
| >> I believe that discussion could be done like any other proposal.<br>
| >><br>
| >><br>
| >> As for the process; when I brought up the idea, I was worried about<br>
| us<br>
| >> spending huge resources discussion individual extensions to death,<br>
| and<br>
| >> proposed, in the interest of efficiency and getting things done:<br>
| >><br>
| >>> The process could be: Every member can nominate any number of<br>
| >>> extensions, to include, maybe a small rationale and then we do one<br>
| >>> round of independent approval voting, requiring a supermajority to<br>
| >>> really only pick uncontested extensions.<br>
| >><br>
| >> So instead of long debates, we start with GHC2020 being just those<br>
| >> extensions that a supermajority on the committee considers to be ok.<br>
| >><br>
| >> This is much more lightweight process that we could get done in a<br>
| week<br>
| >> or two (maybe using a doodle-like voting page). Maybe we would leave<br>
| >> out one or two extension that initially people are reserved about,<br>
| but<br>
| >> could be swayed after lengthy discussions. But is that worth the<br>
| >> lengthy discussion?<br>
| >><br>
| >> cheers,<br>
| >> Joachim<br>
| >><br>
| >> --<br>
| >> Joachim Breitner<br>
| >> <a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" target="_blank">mail@joachim-breitner.de</a><br>
| >><br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jo" target="_blank">
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jo</a><br>
| achim-<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbreitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986445657&sdata=O%2FFcf9XZLsKRW8ESW57%2B37Rp3WNt81xKPDn25QbT5Ng%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
breitner.de</a>%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986445657&sdata=d98tn5pWeuHRDUn0PvEjhkMNFvFPvhtG00K2t2m2o9Y%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7Cfa6e3a6bcdf<br>
| 04ed5611208d84f480f21%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6373<br>
| 46518199468575&sdata=ABgJCFijwzYszRybc0kReMPdR7oSLzC1nV1xJYSlxQ0%3D<br>
| &reserved=0<br>
| >><br>
| >><br>
| >> _______________________________________________<br>
| >> ghc-steering-committee mailing list<br>
| >> <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
| >><br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail" target="_blank">
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail</a>.<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhaskell.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986455654&sdata=jxJvPglvK%2BitmPb3xLo%2F8bXb53%2BwNzdIy8dcJvG9Af8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
haskell.org</a>%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-<br>
| committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986455654&sdata=%2FucisRwNnqOdjz%2FSbofsoiGsZ5AqiMAEBPzJDb2cVLw%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7Cfa6e3a6bcdf04ed5<br>
| 611208d84f480f21%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637346518<br>
| 199468575&sdata=H1hFiX8qnuf%2FlYeNXfEE5j5Aik3dlVvsujoHOt%2FHTnw%3D&<br>
| amp;reserved=0<br>
| ><br>
| > _______________________________________________<br>
| > ghc-steering-committee mailing list<br>
| > <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
| ><br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail" target="_blank">
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail</a>.<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhaskell.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986465647&sdata=pV4zqeHk1VUOJ46TaHvvQzvKnMzsbRytBuZNW7Gvqnw%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
haskell.org</a>%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-<br>
| committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986465647&sdata=uAyqrWp9qv8ITFhpkFmg3C%2F%2F3yDo404jsMfqQAeIWoI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7Cfa6e3a6bcdf04ed5<br>
| 611208d84f480f21%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637346518<br>
| 199468575&sdata=H1hFiX8qnuf%2FlYeNXfEE5j5Aik3dlVvsujoHOt%2FHTnw%3D&<br>
| amp;reserved=0<br>
| <br>
| _______________________________________________<br>
| ghc-steering-committee mailing list<br>
| <a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail" target="_blank">
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail</a>.<br>
| <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhaskell.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986475642&sdata=bBS5y5cQwD%2FlO9vxXeji9G3hgOxQD4nQLL6%2BPZartTE%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
haskell.org</a>%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-<br>
| committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F40microsoft.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986475642&sdata=gyrumWxTU8xU70i03Ec1vsBVl%2BZeLQISVWkVT18nG7k%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">40microsoft.com</a>%7Cfa6e3a6bcdf04ed5<br>
| 611208d84f480f21%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637346518<br>
| 199468575&sdata=H1hFiX8qnuf%2FlYeNXfEE5j5Aik3dlVvsujoHOt%2FHTnw%3D&<br>
| amp;reserved=0<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ghc-steering-committee mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br>
<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fghc-steering-committee&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cfaa7b2a148fd4381512c08d853cf0a81%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637351495986485636&sdata=p07ukOVQF53cYEZwLtpOxn0l95tfeJCrF45iR0HU1mo%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>