<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I abstain, as I don't have a strong enough opinion to vote. Happy to have others decide.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Richard<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 28, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Simon Peyton Jones via ghc-steering-committee <<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" class="">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Friends<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Sorry for dragging my feet here. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Only Joachim, Arnaud, Simon, and Eric responded to my message below. If that means that the rest of you don’t mind either way, that’s fine. But if you have an opinion, please say so in the next 24 hrs.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">No one seems keen on (1).<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Everyone seems on the fence between (2) and (3).<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Personally I prefer (2) over (3). I’m very uncomfortable about an infix white-space operator that binds more tightly than function application. Consider (f .x g .y h .z)<o:p class=""></o:p></p><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=""><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(2) says this means ((((f .x) g) .y) h) .z), so that it parenthesises exactly like function application.<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(3) says it means (((f .x) (g .y)) (h .z)) which, while unambiguous, I dislike cordially.<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I propose to adopt (2). We can vote if need be, but I’d like to hear from anyone who thinks that’s a wrong choice. Clearly it’s a judgement call.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Simon<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" class="">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>07 January 2020 11:29<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" class="">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj@microsoft.com><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Record syntax<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Friends<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I’d like to move our record-syntax discussion forward. Link to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F282&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Ca982a7a9c68f4a7b4a3808d79364cd25%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139933453096241&sdata=ITgdpzLSfuPL9ZlqoPt6NQpiPNlXcJGRIkgBLkRD4hE%3D&reserved=0" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">proposal discussion</a>, and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fpipermail%2Fghc-steering-committee%2F2019-December%2Fthread.html%231387&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Ca982a7a9c68f4a7b4a3808d79364cd25%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139933453106239&sdata=okRmErY9Rw0Y2tY4pPXPyuZtOCwj%2FG8BMqz9sxPtNOA%3D&reserved=0" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">December GHC steering committee debates</a>.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><h2 style="margin: 2pt 0cm 0.0001pt; break-after: avoid-page; font-size: 13pt; font-family: "Calibri Light", sans-serif; color: rgb(47, 84, 150); font-weight: normal;" class=""><b class="">No-space arguments<o:p class=""></o:p></b></h2><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I believe have agreed that<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> f r.x<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(with no spaces around the dot, and no parens around r.x) means<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> f (r.x)<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">That is, treat it consistently with qualified names. I asked everyone to express a view; Iavor, Eric, Arnaud, Joachim, and Richard all said it was at least acceptable; others expressed no view. So let’s take that as a decision, at least for now.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><h2 style="margin: 2pt 0cm 0.0001pt; break-after: avoid-page; font-size: 13pt; font-family: "Calibri Light", sans-serif; color: rgb(47, 84, 150); font-weight: normal;" class=""><b class="">Naked selectors<o:p class=""></o:p></b></h2><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Next question: how should we treat a “naked selector”, namely .x where there is no space after the dot, but there is a space before. I think there are three viable choices:<o:p class=""></o:p></p><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=""><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class="">It’s simply illegal</b>. This defers the choice; perhaps later we will have more experience to go on.<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class="">It’s a postfix operator</b>, binding less tightly than function application, but more tightly than any infix operator. So then (r .x) means r.x, and (r .x .y) means r.x.y. But (f r .x) means (f r).x.<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm 6pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">This choice naturally supports chaining (nice to have, but not essential). We can write<o:p class=""></o:p></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 72pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New", serif; font-weight: bold;" class="">f .map double<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 72pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New", serif; font-weight: bold;" class=""> .filter isEven<o:p class=""></o:p></div><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm 6pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">meaning<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><span style="font-family: "Courier New", serif;" class="">(f.map double).filter isEven</span></b><o:p class=""></o:p></p><ol start="3" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;" class=""><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class="">It’s a postfix operator</b>, binding more tightly than function application, just as record update does. So then (f r .x) means (f r.x), and (f r .x .y s .z) means (f r.x.y s.z).<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm 6pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">This choice allows us to regard our decision about (f r.x) as what naturally happens if we parse it as three lexemes: f, r, and .x. But it also breaks the “function application binds more tightly than anything else” rule, just as (f r {x=3}) sadly does already.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 6pt 0cm 6pt 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">It does not permit chaining, at least not without stacked-up parens.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">In all three cases we allow (.x), meaning (\r. r.x). For (2) and (3) we can regard it as a “section”, like infix operators only simpler because there is no argument.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I think this is the last major question we have to answer.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">What are your views? Personally I lean towards (2), but I could certainly live with (1). I’m a bit reluctant to adopt (3).<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Simon<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 6pt 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">ghc-steering-committee mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" class="">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee" class="">https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>