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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">IMHO, it is a bug that you can provide different fixities in different modules and we should fix that bug.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Doing so would require a design in its own right – a new GHC proposal in fact. The Haskell 2010 report specifically specifies that fixity is a property of an entity, not a lexeme. Remember
those two modules might come from utterly different libraries A and B, written by different authors at different times. We can hardly say that it’s an error to use them together!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">S<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Manuel M T Chakravarty [mailto:chak@justtesting.org]
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<b>Sent:</b> 29 August 2017 01:30<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard Eisenberg <rae@cs.brynmawr.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Simon Peyton Jones <simonpj@microsoft.com>; ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org; Joachim Breitner <mail@joachim-breitner.de><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ghc-steering-committee] Proposal: Type Fixity (#65), Recommendation: Reject<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">IMHO, it is a bug that you can provide different fixities in different modules and we should fix that bug.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Manuel<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Richard Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:rae@cs.brynmawr.edu">rae@cs.brynmawr.edu</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Unsurprisingly, I'm in favor of this proposal and do not wish to reject.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To me, the wart on the language is that we can use the same string for a term-level name and a potentially unrelated type-level name. Of course, this has served many people well, but it does create a certain awkwardness in places (and confusion
for beginners!). As long as we have the possibility of one string representing two potentially unrelated names, it seems to be a weakness in expressiveness not to be able to assign different fixities to the names. (And indeed we *can* assign different fixities,
as long as we do so in different modules.)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On the other hand, I am sensitive about all those other raw fish that need frying...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Richard<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 28, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">I don't have a strong opinion either way. The strongly reason in favour is encapsulated in Richard's comment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F65%23issuecomment-319054892&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C59e710e85d2747a969ea08d4ee752a6d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636395634384317201&sdata=tJqG%2F7szZUU%2Fpl4GL53x5nBvU%2F9O4iD5Xfb79WnKiYM%3D&reserved=0"><span style="color:#954F72">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-319054892</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">which points out that the two T's are entirely unrelated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">I had not fully realised this, but in fact it is /already/ possible to have different fixities for a single lexeme T; a concrete example is here<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F65%23issuecomment-325294776&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C59e710e85d2747a969ea08d4ee752a6d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636395634384317201&sdata=UDVwzfeeS3SbIRq9BBjgVn%2B22BFGw17hwqLXITUSxu8%3D&reserved=0"><span style="color:#954F72">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325294776</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">I added another comment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F65%23issuecomment-325301080&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C59e710e85d2747a969ea08d4ee752a6d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636395634384317201&sdata=imesKT5ZJvCgyU5m%2FA5%2BDChTnPF2lR1VtIkVpOFBpbU%3D&reserved=0"><span style="color:#954F72">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325301080</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">that tries to separate the AST issue from the source-code issue. I do think we should make the internal change; but I’m unconvinced it’s worth the faff to solve the source-level
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">-----Original Message-----</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">From: ghc-steering-committee [mailto:ghc-steering-committee-</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="mailto:bounces@haskell.org"><span style="color:#954F72">bounces@haskell.org</span></a>]
On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Sent: 27 August 2017 19:16</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">To:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org"><span style="color:#954F72">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Proposal: Type Fixity
(#65),</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Recommendation: Reject</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Dear Committee,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Ryan Scott’s proposal to allow fixity declaration to explicitly target<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| values or types has been brought before us:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| I (the secretary) nominates myself as the shepherd, so I can right away<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| continue giving a recommendation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| I propose to reject this proposal. The main reasons are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| * it is not clear if there is a real use case for this. Has anyone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| ever complained about the status quo?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| The proposal does not motivate the need for a change well enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| (There is a related bug in TH, but that bug can probably simply be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| fixed.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| * The status quo can be sold as a feature, rather than a short-coming.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Namely that an operator has a fixed fixity, no matter what namespace<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| it lives in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| This matches morally what other languages do: In Gallina, fixity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| is assigned to names independent of their definition, AFAIK.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| * There is a non-trivial implementation and education overhead, a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| weight that is not pulled by the gains.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| If we’d design Haskell from scratch, my verdict might possibly be different<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| (but maybe we wouldn’t even allow types and values to share names then…)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Please contradict me or indicate consensus by staying silent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Greetings,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Joachim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| Joachim “nomeata” Breitner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">| <a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mail@joachim-breitner.de</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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