<div dir="ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>I think that we should accept this proposal.</div><div><br></div><div>My reasoning is as follows:</div><div> * in traditional Haskell (e.g., 98, 2010) fixities are associated with specific declarations, thus the same name always has the same fixity, no matter in which module it is used.</div><div> * I think that this is not a bug, but a feature: fixities would be basically unusable if they kept changiing, or somehow all libraries had to agree on using a specific fixity ahead of time---even when they use the same name for completely different purposes (let alone type vs. value).</div><div> * I find the current design for `TypeOprators` to be confusing, as a single fixity declaration, sets the fixties of two completely unrelated names---one in the value namespace and one in the type namespace: assuming that these two have anything to with each other seems to be a mistake.</div><div> * the propsal suggests a rather natural way to resolve this.</div><div><br></div><div>-Iavor</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 3:30 AM Manuel M T Chakravarty <<a href="mailto:chak@justtesting.org">chak@justtesting.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">IMHO, it is a bug that you can provide different fixities in different modules and we should fix that bug.<div><br></div><div>Manuel</div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Richard Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:rae@cs.brynmawr.edu" target="_blank">rae@cs.brynmawr.edu</a>>:</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><br class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Unsurprisingly, I'm in favor of this proposal and do not wish to reject.</div><div><br></div><div>To me, the wart on the language is that we can use the same string for a term-level name and a potentially unrelated type-level name. Of course, this has served many people well, but it does create a certain awkwardness in places (and confusion for beginners!). As long as we have the possibility of one string representing two potentially unrelated names, it seems to be a weakness in expressiveness not to be able to assign different fixities to the names. (And indeed we *can* assign different fixities, as long as we do so in different modules.)</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, I am sensitive about all those other raw fish that need frying...</div><div><br></div><div>Richard</div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 28, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div class="m_5072721056245476487WordSection1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">I don't have a strong opinion either way. The strongly reason in favour is encapsulated in Richard's comment<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-319054892" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-319054892</a><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">which points out that the two T's are entirely unrelated.<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">I had not fully realised this, but in fact it is /already/ possible to have different fixities for a single lexeme T; a concrete example is here<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325294776" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325294776</a><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">I added another comment<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325301080" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325301080</a><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">that tries to separate the AST issue from the source-code issue. I do think we should make the internal change; but I’m unconvinced it’s worth the faff to solve the source-level issue.<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Simon<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US">From: ghc-steering-committee [mailto:<a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee-" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee-</a></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:bounces@haskell.org" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">bounces@haskell.org</a>] On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US">Sent: 27 August 2017 19:16</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US">To:<span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US">Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Proposal: Type Fixity (#65),</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US">Recommendation: Reject</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Dear Committee,</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Ryan Scott’s proposal to allow fixity declaration to explicitly target</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| values or types has been brought before us:</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FRyanGlScott%2Fghc-proposals%2Fblob%2Ftype-infix%2F0000-type-infix.rst&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf83d705bf55c4f02639b08d4ed77cb5e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636394546146778107&sdata=xa8HXiRK3uYOjGun7UUL3sKDVFvBVTFnXewe15pBGds%3D&reserved=0" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%</span></a></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a 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style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">| 6778107&sdata=f5g17%2FpJdVe4vuwOAhrphyvXJakPFMS3yYZsi0sNG00%3D&reserved=0</span></a></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| I (the secretary) nominates myself as the shepherd, so I can right away</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| continue giving a recommendation.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| I propose to reject this proposal. The main reasons are:</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| * it is not clear if there is a real use case for this. Has anyone</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| ever complained about the status quo?</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| The proposal does not motivate the need for a change well enough.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| (There is a related bug in TH, but that bug can probably simply be</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| fixed.)</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| * The status quo can be sold as a feature, rather than a short-coming.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Namely that an operator has a fixed fixity, no matter what namespace</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| it lives in.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| This matches morally what other languages do: In Gallina, fixity</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| is assigned to names independent of their definition, AFAIK.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| * There is a non-trivial implementation and education overhead, a</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| weight that is not pulled by the gains.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| If we’d design Haskell from scratch, my verdict might possibly be different</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| (but maybe we wouldn’t even allow types and values to share names then…)</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Please contradict me or indicate consensus by staying silent.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Greetings,</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Joachim</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| --</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| Joachim “nomeata” Breitner</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mail@joachim-breitner.de</span></a></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">| <span class="m_5072721056245476487Apple-converted-space"> </span><a 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style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee" style="color:rgb(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>ghc-steering-committee mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee" target="_blank">https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee</a><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>