<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Unsurprisingly, I'm in favor of this proposal and do not wish to reject.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To me, the wart on the language is that we can use the same string for a term-level name and a potentially unrelated type-level name. Of course, this has served many people well, but it does create a certain awkwardness in places (and confusion for beginners!). As long as we have the possibility of one string representing two potentially unrelated names, it seems to be a weakness in expressiveness not to be able to assign different fixities to the names. (And indeed we *can* assign different fixities, as long as we do so in different modules.)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On the other hand, I am sensitive about all those other raw fish that need frying...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Richard</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 28, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" class="">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">I don't have a strong opinion either way. The strongly reason in favour is encapsulated in Richard's comment<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-319054892" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-319054892</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">which points out that the two T's are entirely unrelated.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">I had not fully realised this, but in fact it is /already/ possible to have different fixities for a single lexeme T; a concrete example is here<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325294776" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325294776</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">I added another comment<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325301080" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/65#issuecomment-325301080</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">that tries to separate the AST issue from the source-code issue. I do think we should make the internal change; but I’m unconvinced it’s worth the faff to solve the source-level issue.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Simon<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">-----Original Message-----</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">From: ghc-steering-committee [mailto:ghc-steering-committee-</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class=""><a href="mailto:bounces@haskell.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">bounces@haskell.org</a>] On Behalf Of Joachim Breitner</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Sent: 27 August 2017 19:16</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Subject: [ghc-steering-committee] Proposal: Type Fixity (#65),</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Recommendation: Reject</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Dear Committee,</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Ryan Scott’s proposal to allow fixity declaration to explicitly target</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| values or types has been brought before us:</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FRyanGlScott%2Fghc-proposals%2Fblob%2Ftype-infix%2F0000-type-infix.rst&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf83d705bf55c4f02639b08d4ed77cb5e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636394546146778107&sdata=xa8HXiRK3uYOjGun7UUL3sKDVFvBVTFnXewe15pBGds%3D&reserved=0" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); 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text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;" class="">| f02639b08d4ed77cb5e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63639454614</span></a></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F65&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf83d705bf55c4f02639b08d4ed77cb5e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636394546146778107&sdata=f5g17%2FpJdVe4vuwOAhrphyvXJakPFMS3yYZsi0sNG00%3D&reserved=0" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;" class="">| 6778107&sdata=f5g17%2FpJdVe4vuwOAhrphyvXJakPFMS3yYZsi0sNG00%3D&reserved=0</span></a></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| I (the secretary) nominates myself as the shepherd, so I can right away</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| continue giving a recommendation.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| I propose to reject this proposal. The main reasons are:</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| * it is not clear if there is a real use case for this. Has anyone</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| ever complained about the status quo?</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| The proposal does not motivate the need for a change well enough.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| (There is a related bug in TH, but that bug can probably simply be</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| fixed.)</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| * The status quo can be sold as a feature, rather than a short-coming.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Namely that an operator has a fixed fixity, no matter what namespace</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| it lives in.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| This matches morally what other languages do: In Gallina, fixity</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| is assigned to names independent of their definition, AFAIK.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| * There is a non-trivial implementation and education overhead, a</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| weight that is not pulled by the gains.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| If we’d design Haskell from scratch, my verdict might possibly be different</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| (but maybe we wouldn’t even allow types and values to share names then…)</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Please contradict me or indicate consensus by staying silent.</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Greetings,</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Joachim</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| --</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| Joachim “nomeata” Breitner</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <a href="mailto:mail@joachim-breitner.de" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;" class="">mail@joachim-breitner.de</span></a></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">| <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.joachim-breitner.de%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7Cf83d705bf55c4f02639b08d4ed77cb5e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636394546146778107&sdata=PLDAZw6uCBkzRl7cjF00IomTmEAuqDKd7NNjbPWkpeE%3D&reserved=0" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); 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text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;" class="">| &sdata=PLDAZw6uCBkzRl7cjF00IomTmEAuqDKd7NNjbPWkpeE%3D&reserved=0</span></a></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">ghc-steering-committee mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-steering-committee</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>