<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Segoe UI";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.Code, li.Code, div.Code
{mso-style-name:Code;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
.MsoPapDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
margin-top:6.0pt;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:6.0pt;
margin-left:0cm;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1355158250;
mso-list-template-ids:-1556441798;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:36.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:108.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:144.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:180.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:1445271225;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-489545818 134807553 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I rather agree with Ryan. I think we are doing quite well on generating thoughtful debate; but rather badly on bringing those debates to a conclusion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I’d like to suggest:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The author of the proposal is responsible for moving a proposal into “committee review” status. We should make it blindingly clear that it’s the author’s responsibility; and how they
should actually make that change.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We need a committee Secretary who<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Assigns a “shepherd” for each proposal that is in “committee review”. (I don’t think we need a shepherd before then.) The shepherd is responsible for bringing the committee to consensus
within four weeks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chivvies the shepherd if s/he doesn’t appear to be making progress.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Perhaps sends regular (fortnightly?) summaries of what proposals are in what state – thought that should be a web link, shouldn’t it? Yes: we should display the date of when it moved
into committee review.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Makes sure that the proposals repo is in good shape. For example the
<a href="https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposal-submission.rst">
submission page</a> does not specify that the author changes status, etc. It looks like a previous version…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So the Secretary chivvies the shepherd; and the shepherd chivvies the committee; and we should get decisions actually taken.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Now, to date I think Ben has been de-factor Secretary; but he has rather a lot of balls to juggle, and I wonder if you would be interested/willing Joachim?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> ghc-steering-committee [mailto:ghc-steering-committee-bounces@haskell.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryan Newton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 19 February 2017 15:26<br>
<b>To:</b> ghc-steering-committee@haskell.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ghc-steering-committee] Prioritizing proposals for processing? Viewing dates/deadlines?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Dear steering committee,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
How do we see what the deadline is for a given proposal discussion?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
I know we've discussed process a fair bit, but I seem to quickly forget these things if they're not super simple. I can
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpulls%3Fq%3Dis%253Apr%2Bis%253Aopen%2Bsort%253Acreated-asc&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C580eab8a619c4dbdb28e08d458dc8c99%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636231151665537766&sdata=kw4dXYfavJM7w%2BiOBiK3T0E2WyMXchLlXMXKn%2BlsvUI%3D&reserved=0">
go here</a>, and see proposals, oldest first. (The PR numbers effectively date them as well.) The labels are super useful too (Under discussion).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
Richard's original proposal is attached below. SPJ later suggested "2 weeks"->"4 weeks" for the consideration period. I think that corresponds to the "Pending Committee review" label. But right now,
<b><i>no proposals have that label</i></b>. For example, how to judge the stage of
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fpull%2F36&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C580eab8a619c4dbdb28e08d458dc8c99%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636231151665537766&sdata=y1bGEzyCEnHDH0TDSw07kUw1bOPZ4jcZEqm1lVZOcho%3D&reserved=0">
PR number 36</a>?:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
has the "Under discussion" label <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
was posted Jan 15 (1 month old)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
has been commented on by some committee members<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
doesn't have a corresponding email thread on "ghc-steering-committee"<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
doesn't have a shepherd, which I <b><i>think </i></b>would appear as an "Assignee" on the PR/issue, right?<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For better or worse I live a very deadline driven life ;-). So it would be nice to see which proposals have a decision deadline and act there first. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As a small technical point, how do we record the DATE when the "Pending committee review" label is assigned, which is what starts the clock ticking right?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> -Ryan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">P.S. It seems like the decisions about timing and process haven't filtered through to the
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C580eab8a619c4dbdb28e08d458dc8c99%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636231151665537766&sdata=%2FCFVE%2B6C9%2Fld%2FXB5i9XrL08H5M5ziqUoP5vG5%2FTCzBs%3D&reserved=0">
front-page / top level README</a>. Which says only:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#333333"> "Proposals are ultimately evaluated by the </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fghc-proposals%2Fghc-proposals%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fsteering-committee.rst&data=02%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C580eab8a619c4dbdb28e08d458dc8c99%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636231151665537766&sdata=N1mTjcucqKfQtdgM3r0%2Faw6lC85pAHQ8d0m8L0CW4AI%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#4078C0;text-decoration:none">GHC
Steering Committee</span></a></i><i><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#333333"> based upon a number of criteria and in light of community feedback."</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Richard Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:rae@cs.brynmawr.edu" target="_blank">rae@cs.brynmawr.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">.....<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I propose the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Establish an official <a href="mailto:ghc-committee@haskell.org" target="_blank">ghc-committee@haskell.org</a> mailing list that reaches just us. It will not be open to the public to join, though I have no problem making archives public.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- When the author of a proposal (or anyone else, really, if the author wanders off) deems the proposal ready for a decision, that author emails the list telling us so.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- We use an organic process to decide on one individual in the committee who will oversee the discussion on the proposal. If organic doesn’t work, our chair(s) assign the proposal to a member. It is expected that membership on the committee
means that we will volunteer to handle proposals as appropriate. The committee member running this discussion process is hereby titled the Shepherd of the proposal. (NB: This is slightly different than my understanding of a Shepherd in Rust, who is assigned
earlier in the process.)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Neither the shepherd nor the committee is *not* responsible for reading GitHub (or other) commentary. The proposal will be considered on its own. If the author wishes the committee to consider any commentary, that commentary should be
incorporated into the proposal.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Once a decision is requested, the shepherd has two weeks (in holiday times or near the ICFP deadline, 3) to generate consensus. If consensus is elusive, then we vote, with the Simons retaining veto power.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- If we say no: the shepherd updates the proposal (not just the commentary) with the reasons for rejection. The proposer is welcome to revise and try again, but the document should retain this original rejection information.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- If we say yes: A Trac ticket is created, referring back to the proposal and commentary. (The shepherd is responsible for making sure this happens.) At this point, the proposal process is technically complete. I believe it is outside of
our purview to implement, oversee implementation, attract implementors, etc. Naturally, we will want to do this as individuals, but I believe it’s not in our remit.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>