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<p>As Ben and others say, Matrix provides many modern features new
users will expect, while preserving the spirit of IRC. Without
wading into the details, the design of Matrix I find impressive
and to my liking, and it has seemed to get steadily better over
time for quite a while now.</p>
<p>Re Zulip, in <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27202838">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27202838</a> one of
the lead Matrix devs says their up-and-coming threading model aims
to support what Zulip does and they've been discussing deeper
integration with Zulip. Granted, It would be better to hear about
those discussions from the Zulip side as Matrix aims to assimilate
everything and Zulip could have some reservations, but I remain
hopeful. (I certainly would like to see culled the current
explosion of mutually-incompatible chat applications, leaving us
with fewer protocols but as many competing implementations.)<br>
</p>
<p>What I recommend for now that we make some official Matrix
channels, but also bridge them with the libera.chat ones once the
bridge is up (should be a few days). Creating a matrix room and
bridging it is a bit different underneath the hood than using a
channel generated by the bridge on demand. We can give them nice
names on the matrix side, and basically keep both options open of
being "IRC-first" or "Matrix-first" down the road.</p>
<p>For reference, see
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://matrix.to/#/#community:nixos.org?via=nixos.org">https://matrix.to/#/#community:nixos.org?via=nixos.org</a> which is
the Matrix "Space" (room that is a directory of sub-rooms, filling
the role of a Discord "server") that Nix community created while
they debate what to do next. See also
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/94">https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/94</a> where this same discussion
is playing out.<br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/21/21 4:00 PM, Iavor Diatchki
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGK9nuqW8Z+YREWCaoTWJrP99qGazgQ5ZBrB_9ToLW5pXTNy3g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">As I said, I am not a heavy IRC user, for my online
chatting needs I mostly use Mattermost, Discord, and Slack.
So I don't have an informed opinion on the technical merits of
the various platforms---mostly I've heard that the Matrix
clients and servers are quite a bit less robust than IRC ones
but I've never personally used them.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If there is a feeling that GHC wants to use a new chatting
platform, by all means we should try it out. I just don't
think that the unfortunate situation with free-node is a good
reason to drop IRC entirely. Despite its flows, I think it
has served our community well, and while it may look "old" to
"young" users it does have the benefit of being pretty stable,
unlike the myriad of chatting services that seem to be popping
up all the time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Iavor</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:41
AM Ben Gamari <<a href="mailto:ben@smart-cactus.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">ben@smart-cactus.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Iavor
Diatchki <<a href="mailto:iavor.diatchki@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">iavor.diatchki@gmail.com</a>>
writes:<br>
<br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> I am not a heavy IRC user, but I'd say it makes most
sense to just use<br>
> Libera. It is essentially the same people that were
running free-node<br>
> running pretty much the exact same service, and I believe
they are trying<br>
> to make it extra easy to just switch, so this should be
the least effort<br>
> transition.<br>
><br>
> I believe IRC has served the GHC community quite well so
far, and there is<br>
> a reddit post by Ed Kmett that the normal Haskell
channels have already<br>
> been transitioned over, so I think it makes sense for GHC
to stick with the<br>
> rest of the Haskell community.<br>
><br>
The problem is that, in order to grow (or even merely not to
shrink),<br>
the community also needs to adapt to the preferences of
younger users.<br>
<br>
The fact of the matter is the younger users tend to be, at
best,<br>
unfamiliar with IRC. In the worst case, the need to leave a
browser/sign<br>
up for a new account means that they simply won't participate.
Of the<br>
new contributors I have had approach me in the past year, less
than half<br>
have had any familiarity with IRC.<br>
<br>
Matrix has the advantage of being accessible to "web-native"
community<br>
members while being open enough to (at least in principle)
allow<br>
community members who are accustomed to IRC to continue to
participate<br>
via a bridge.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
- Ben<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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