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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Good points but:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If literally no one actually finds the absence of 7.10.2 a problem, we could save a lot of work (for you) by not releasing it! I think it’s reasonable
to have some evidence of need before investing the effort (for both GHC and HP) needed for a release.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The tremendous amount of contingent work for HP should be orders of magnitude less for a patch-level release. Remember, there are supposed to be
<b>no API changes</b>, just bug fixes. So if it worked with 7.10.1, it should work with 7.10.2. That’s why I said “press the button”. Suppose you did just do the automated build with exact same libraries as you currently have for 7.10.1. If that
<b>doesn’t</b> work, that’s interesting… it’s not supposed to happen. And it would be good to know if it does.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So I think there should be precisely zero work for library authors to stay abreast of 7.10.2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Does that help? I’m sure I’m misunderstanding something important – apologies if so.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Simon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Mark Lentczner [mailto:mark.lentczner@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 06 May 2015 04:47<br>
<b>To:</b> Simon Peyton Jones<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ghc-devs@haskell.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: release timing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:6.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Simon Peyton Jones <<a href="mailto:simonpj@microsoft.com" target="_blank">simonpj@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">So the current status is that we’ll hold it until someone says “getting 7.10.2 out really matters to me”.</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Other things being equal, the longer we wait, the more fixes will be in.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This seems like a pretty ad hoc way to release a mature project. While it may be fine for GHC central to be happy living on tip-o-master until such time as someone decides to stamp a tag on it, for anyone with anything that is based on
"official releases", this sort of "radioactive decay" model of releasing makes any planning and work scheduling neigh impossible.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">But does anything stand in the way of pressing the button on the HP build, so that you have a HP 7.10.2 ready to go? You can always
press the button again if/when further fixes go in.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is a tremendous amount of contingent work that goes into the libraries that make up the HP. In order for us to beat the bushes and ensure that everything is in shape to ship with the GHC release, we need some sense of when the release
is, and preferably a few weeks before hand notice. Asking all the library authors to keep their libraries up-to-date, with numbered releases on Hackage, with tip-o-7.10.2 GHC as it goes is asking too much.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ideally, development would follow a schedule like this:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -8 weeks - GHC Central announces the date of the next release (T)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -7 weeks - HP assembles library list, puts maintainers on notice of impending release<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -4 weeks - GHC releases alpha builds, HP team does test builds, notifies library maintainers of needed updates<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -3 weeks - HP releases alpha build<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -2 weeks - GHC releases beta builds<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -1 week - HP releases beta build<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -2 days - GHC releases release candidate<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T -1 day - HP releases release candidate<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
T - GHC & HP release at same time<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I can't imagine mobilizing the volunteer army any faster than that. I, for one, have to plan for weekends "off from the family" so that I can put out the final release - and these things have to be scheduled.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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